quote:

Originally posted by TonyG:
I was just watching the Senators, Panters game and Elleby from the Panters nails Sack Smith with a clean nasty hard hit into the boards and Smith goes down. As soon as it happens, A Senator Player comes flying and starts punching the Shet out of Elleby. Thats the way it is done, not 2 games later, not the next period, now right when it happens. And thats what should have happen to Orbik.

And who was that player that took him on. Yes, Zack Smith. A player who can throw them. Let's just agree to disagree on this subject, but I do want to say one more thing. I'd rather have someone take on Orpik when the game still means something. And for your information RR an extra instigator if it's called would be well worth it. I don't buy into the theory that you should go after him because an extra two minutes doesn't mean anything. The game was over. Scoreboard is all Orpik would be saying on his way to the box.

quote:

Originally posted by NYRfan16:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TonyG:
I was just watching the Senators, Panters game and Elleby from the Panters nails Sack Smith with a clean nasty hard hit into the boards and Smith goes down. As soon as it happens, A Senator Player comes flying and starts punching the Shet out of Elleby. Thats the way it is done, not 2 games later, not the next period, now right when it happens. And thats what should have happen to Orbik.

What I meant to say was Zack Smith fought his own battle. I understood what you were trying to say though.

16, thanks for pointing out Boyle to us.
I just looked at the video again (a few times) and he pretty much pulled a 'Girardi' on that one, by doing absolutely NOTHING when he had the chance. Not only did he see it happen but he and Orpik skated right near each other a second after Kreider hit the ice.
I liked Boyle...until now. I hope Torts and Sullivan gave it to him good in that locker room. They should have!
Again... this happened with the score out of hand and only 38 seconds left in the game!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE for not taking care of business right there and then by sticking up for the new kid!!!!!!!
A VERY LAME CHOICE by Brian Boyle.


One thing's for SURE. If Dubi or Prust were there, there's no way they would've done nothing. Hasn't this team learned anything about PASSION and TOUGHNESS and doing certain things at key times to stick together as a team????? Apparently NOT.

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And on a side note...the reporters and MSG on-camera guys talk about everything little thing to hype this team. I wonder if there will be ANYONE who brings up this very important issue, a moment that is critical to a team coming together as a solid unit.
Boyle and his mates on the ice dropped the ball on this moment and of course nobody will say a thing about it...
and it'll be swept under the rug like most BS in the NHL.

quote:

Originally posted by NYRfan16:

quote:

Originally posted by TonyG:
I was just watching the Senators, Panters game and Elleby from the Panters nails Sack Smith with a clean nasty hard hit into the boards and Smith goes down. As soon as it happens, A Senator Player comes flying and starts punching the Shet out of Elleby. Thats the way it is done, not 2 games later, not the next period, now right when it happens. And thats what should have happen to Orbik.

And who was that player that took him on. Yes, Zack Smith. A player who can throw them. Let's just agree to disagree on this subject, but I do want to say one more thing. I'd rather have someone take on Orpik when the game still means something. And for your information RR an extra instigator if it's called would be well worth it. I don't buy into the theory that you should go after him because an extra two minutes doesn't mean anything. The game was over. Scoreboard is all Orpik would be saying on his way to the box.

the problem with waiting is that this game was already lost so a fighting major would have had no effect on the outcome of the game where as the next time the retaliation could very well cost them the game.

i hate pit more then words can describe but i will be the first to say that i would not want to willingly give them a opportunity to get a power play or a 4 on 4 situation because they can easily make that come back to bite you in the @ zz.

in hockey you stand up for your team mates and there is no right or wrong.
the hit was 100% clean but it makes no difference, he should have been jumped.

players get their heads taken off for skating up to the goalie looking for a loose puck that did not even touch him so using that same logic when your team mate is laying on the ice in la la land it should be a no brainer.

i would have been happier to see orpik get jumped for a clean hit then see the rangers turn the blind eye after the fact and do nothing.

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Originally posted by NYRfan16:

quote:

Originally posted by Double R:

quote:

Originally posted by NYRfan16:
Trust me. The rangers will go after Orpik and he will have to answer the bell. In the old days you didn't go after anyone after a hit like that. You took his number and exacted revenge later in the season. You of all people should know that Tony. Heck, it was a four on four situation. If you want to blame someone that's okay, but not the team. It was right in front of Boyle and he did a good job of ignoring what happened, but I don't want Boyle taking on Orpik. He'd get his a$$ kicked. I'd rather wait until Asham or Bickle had a chance. Notice I didn't mention Brandon Rupp. You know, the guy who hasn't won any fights in the last year and a half.

I disagree with practically everything you said. The time to exact revenge on another player is immediately after the incident happens, not the next time the two teams meet. It's not like the Rangers were in a close game and had to be careful of taking a penalty. The game was basically over, so there was no excuse for that shameful lack of a response from the Rangers. None. And what is this crap that 'Boyle did a good job of ignoring what happened'. Really??? His teammate gets knocked on his face and Boyle did a good job by ignoring it? As far as not wanting Boyle to take on Orpik, it's not about who would win the fight it's about the willingness for teammates to stand up for each other. That's what a team is supposed to do. Get it? (And by the way, who the hell is Brandon Rupp?)

I don't need to get anything RR. We just happen to disagree. Due to your anger, it's pretty obvious you missed my attempt to be humorous. I was being sarcastic when I mentioned that Boyle did a pretty good job of ignoring what happened. It wasn't because I was praising him. I was glad that he didn't go after orpik and I still stand by it so get over it. My reference about Brandon Rupp has to with a long debate I had with Tony about Prust and his fighting majors. WE have all had the misfortune of watching Mike Rupp lose the majority of his fights. I certainly don't want Rupp to take on Orpik and watch him lose again. I want someone who can inflict bodily harm and Rupp and or Boyle are not the guys. Why don't you watch the replay and check out Boyle pretending he didn't see what happened. Then you might understand my sarcastic dig on Boyle. Let's say Boyle went after Orpik. Well then kudoes for Boyle, but there are many who would say there we go again.
Another good hit followed by a player taking exception to it. Those people would be non ranger fans I suppose. Anyway, lighten up. I'm just teasing Tony a little about his old takes on Brandon prust and his fights. I think all of us on this board with the exception of a few miss Brandon Prust. In regards to your last take. There have been many rangers who decided not to stick up for their teammates over the years. Vic hadfield and Dan Girardi come to mind. Who received the flak for that. Yes, both players did. So when you guys spew off about the rangers not coming to Kreider's defense be specific about who your upset with.

As you've noticed, this is a very sensitive topic for me and many other Ranger fans and it's not a topic for humor or sarcasm. There is no gray area here. We've seen this scenario unfold far too many times over the years where an opponent does something to a Ranger player and no one does anything about it. I can tolerate certain faults or shortcomings from my team, but one thing I cannot tolerate is a lack of physical response when it is called for. This is hockey. When an opponent lays out one of your players, you do something about it. You don't stand around with your thumb up your a55. If that's how it's going to be for the Rangers this year, we can forget about having a successful season like last year. Remember that team? We were energetic, physical, gutsy, and we certainly didn't take any crap from the other team. So far, this year's team has some soul-searching to do regarding standing up for each other and they'd better decide very quickly what kind of team they want to be.

quote:

Originally posted by NYRfan16:

quote:

Originally posted by NYRfan16:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TonyG:
I was just watching the Senators, Panters game and Elleby from the Panters nails Sack Smith with a clean nasty hard hit into the boards and Smith goes down. As soon as it happens, A Senator Player comes flying and starts punching the Shet out of Elleby. Thats the way it is done, not 2 games later, not the next period, now right when it happens. And thats what should have happen to Orbik.

What I meant to say was Zack Smith fought his own battle. I understood what you were trying to say though.

Sorry 16 you read it all wrong. Zack Smith was the one who was nailed by Elleby with a nasty hit into the boards and he was the one that went down and Zack Smiths linemate game flying into Elleby and started throwing punches. Zack Smith was laying on the ice he was not fighting his own battles, his teammate came in and did the fighting.

Hello all hope everyone is doing ok..I was disgusted by the lack of a immediate response to Orpik. The game was already decided so any additonal penalty minutes were meaningless. A messae had to be sent right then by SOMEONE. f the only thing done was to go over and engge Orpik thn so be it but it was a trrible passive moment by our team..one that has you thinking is it really an all for one , one for all team.

My opinion is that if #8 was still on our team he would have responded if he was on the ice or the next time he stepped on the ice hadhe gotten the chance, although in my book you don't wait and leave the job to someone else... if you were one of the other 4 positional players on the ice at the time (besides Biron and Kreider of course) you engage Orpik immediately.

Bad sign for this team an in our home opener no less in front of our fans.

Was the hit on Keider a clean hit? In my opinion, yes it was. Does that make any difference weather or not you stand up for your teammate, who just happens to be a rookie to boot? In my opinion, NO! (Lts just forget about Orpik's cheap shot on Stepan last year too).

Orpik was making a statement to the Rangers with 0:38 seconds left to go in a game that was already over. If you don't know what he was saying, then you never have played a contact sport in your life, or you have been a target for bullies your entire life.

When someone challenges a person or a team like that pyshically, he is saying he owns you and if you don't respond in kind, he is right.

Carkner in Game 2 on Boyle. Same thing but worse because it was a cheap shot followed by an assault while Boyle was down. And why....because Boyle gave thier kid a little face wash and a few nuggies? That's how you respond to your rookie star getting picked on...except without the cheap shot. Ottawa came back at us with Carkner, Neil and Konopka. And what did we do about that? NOTHING! And it almost cost us the series. We got bullied every game until Prust stood up to Neil. All that fight did was turn the tide back in our favor and the rest of the team responded coming from behind to win game 6. I know in my heart that if Prust doesn't do that, we go home losers after 6 games. Rupp was invisible, Bickel was benched, and John Scott was in the stands. Are you kidding me Torts? Game 4 should have seen John Scott in the line up for one purpose only. I don't care if he wins or loses the fights but he should have been there taking on Carkner the second he hit the ice, and every time he hit the ice. Three times in the first period if possible. That's how you deal with a cheap shot bully in my book.

I do not believe in cheap shots (like Carkner), or intentionally trying to injure anyone, BUT, I do believe you have to stick up for teammates no matter what. That is what is missing from this team, and that is what they better find in someone, and soon, because Prust in in Montreal and Carkner in now an Islander along with Martin and Boulton. Just wait util those games if you think you're depressed now.

Yup. Agreed.

quote:

Originally posted by sizzlechest:
Hello all hope everyone is doing ok..I was disgusted by the lack of a immediate response to Orpik. The game was already decided so any additonal penalty minutes were meaningless. A messae had to be sent right then by SOMEONE. f the only thing done was to go over and engge Orpik thn so be it but it was a trrible passive moment by our team..one that has you thinking is it really an all for one , one for all team.

My opinion is that if #8 was still on our team he would have responded if he was on the ice or the next time he stepped on the ice hadhe gotten the chance, although in my book you don't wait and leave the job to someone else... if you were one of the other 4 positional players on the ice at the time (besides Biron and Kreider of course) you engage Orpik immediately.

Bad sign for this team an in our home opener no less in front of our fans.

regarding the instigator penalty if someone decides to challenge orpik when the pens meet the rangers next time. Won't happen in my humble opinion. Orpik will be ready and willing whomever steps to the plate. All he going to need is a tap on the shoulder.

Back track to the hit. MDZ changed leaving three players on the ice. Besides Boyle, the only visible ranger was Stralman. The onus was on Boyle to take on Orpik. He saw the whole thing and decided to do nothing. Sorry, but it didn't bother me. Would I have liked to see him go after orpik. I guess I would have, but it probably would have been a wrestling match at best. Boyle can't fight, period. I'd much rather someone else taking on Orpik in another game. A game where it will mean something. Can you imagine the lift during our next match with the pens if someone kicks his teeth in. Now that's worth waiting for! Why wasn't there any dialogue between Sam and Joe or Torts after the game about someone jumping orpik? Kreider will learn not to go east / west and then break up the middle like that. Perfect opportunity for a surprise attack from a Scott Stevens like player.

C'mon guys, simple answer why nothing was done: Rule 46.22 in your NHL rulebook.

46.22 Fines and Suspensions – Instigator in Final Five Minutes of Regulation Time (or Anytime in Overtime) - A player who is deemed to be the instigator of an altercation in the final five (5) minutes of regulation time or at anytime in overtime (see 46.12) shall be suspended for one game, pending a review of the incident.

When the one-game suspension is imposed, the Coach shall be fined $10,000 – a fine that will double for each subsequent incident.

The suspension shall be served unless, upon review of the incident, the Director of Hockey Operations, at his discretion, deems the incident is not related to the score, previous incidents in the game or prior games, retaliatory in nature, “message sending”, etc. The length of suspension will double for each subsequent offense. This suspension shall be served in addition to any other automatic suspensions a player may incur for an accumulation of three or more instigator penalties.

No team appeals will be permitted either verbally or in writing regarding the assessment of this automatic suspension as all incidents are reviewed by the Director of Hockey Operations as outlined above
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Bottom line it was a clean hit, best way to get the Pens back, catch one of them with a good hard hit. We discussed this on this forum a couple years ago, why do clean hits lead to fights?? It's part of the game, either take the hit like a man or go play tennis. It would be like an NFL running back complaining that a defender tackled him. Avoid the hit or hit back when given the opportunity.

quote:

Originally posted by kc1313:
C'mon guys, simple answer why nothing was done: Rule 46.22 in your NHL rulebook.

46.22 Fines and Suspensions – Instigator in Final Five Minutes of Regulation Time (or Anytime in Overtime) - A player who is deemed to be the instigator of an altercation in the final five (5) minutes of regulation time or at anytime in overtime (see 46.12) shall be suspended for one game, pending a review of the incident.

When the one-game suspension is imposed, the Coach shall be fined $10,000 – a fine that will double for each subsequent incident.

The suspension shall be served unless, upon review of the incident, the Director of Hockey Operations, at his discretion, deems the incident is not related to the score, previous incidents in the game or prior games, retaliatory in nature, “message sending”, etc. The length of suspension will double for each subsequent offense. This suspension shall be served in addition to any other automatic suspensions a player may incur for an accumulation of three or more instigator penalties.

No team appeals will be permitted either verbally or in writing regarding the assessment of this automatic suspension as all incidents are reviewed by the Director of Hockey Operations as outlined above
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Bottom line it was a clean hit, best way to get the Pens back, catch one of them with a good hard hit. We discussed this on this forum a couple years ago, why do clean hits lead to fights?? It's part of the game, either take the hit like a man or go play tennis. It would be like an NFL running back complaining that a defender tackled him. Avoid the hit or hit back when given the opportunity.

Great job KC. Thanks for waking me up to that rule and everyone else too.

KC....all good points but I think you feel as though I am talking just about the Kreider hit, which I'm not. I'm talking about a pattern of events, such as Carkner's cheap shot on Boyle and Orpik's cheap shot on Stepan last year as well. I don't want to see guys suspended over clean hits, which as I said, and you said, are part of the game. But if we let Carkner get away with what he did with no repsonse, what does that say to every other thug out there about taking a run at one of our players?

Orpik put a cheap shot on Stepan last year with no consequenses. Why should he think twice about doing it again? Perhaps if someone made Orpik pay a price for his previous cheap shot on Stepan, he would think twice about lighting up one of our players with 38 seconds to go in a 6-3 game. Yes, it was a clean hit, but it was also done to send a message. On the other side of the coin, I wonder how the Pens would take it if the same thing was done to Crosby or Malkin under the same circumstances with 38 second to go in a game that was over. Not well is my guess.

What about Carkner? Do you think we owe him anything for what he did to Boyle?

There's a time and a place for payback, it's getting harder and harder in this league to find that perfect time.
Can't say I have the right answer, but if the Rangers go into a game hellbent on revenge against a certain player, and not focused on what they should be focused on, they are probably going to lose that game.

KC...yes there is a time and place for everything. In my opinion, the time and place for Carkner was Game 4 when he first came back after his one game suspension and we had a guy (John Scott) who could at least go toe to toe with him. Unfortunately, that time passed with a whimper and we lost the game anyway.I know Tort's reason then was it was the playoffs, but now that excuse is gone. Now they have to decide if they are going to respond or not. My personal opinion is that moment.......game 1 against the Islanders........when Carkner takes the ice, will be when we find out what this team's heart is. If they go after Carkner.......win, lose or draw the fight (and he's tough as nails), then they are telling the league you can't get away with that stuff against us. If they don't, and they give him a pass....well, then I think it will be a long painful season.