quote:

Originally posted by redraider:
Ryan Smyth. OUCH!! Even though those first rounders never really panned out I think of that trade and shake my head. The only way to get good, really good is to be bad really bad for a couple or three years. This team should be more concerned on building a solid nucleaus for years to come and unfortunately I'm beginning to think that the Tavares pick just may set us back in regard.

Ergo, I wouldn't give up much if anything for Kovalchuk whether or not he was signed. Reminds me too much of Alan Iverson. A great talent but one that will never bring the team with him. Get me a Stevie Y type.

quote:

Originally posted by Lucky:

quote:

Originally posted by redraider:
Ryan Smyth. OUCH!! Even though those first rounders never really panned out I think of that trade and shake my head. The only way to get good, really good is to be bad really bad for a couple or three years. This team should be more concerned on building a solid nucleaus for years to come and unfortunately I'm beginning to think that the Tavares pick just may set us back in regard.

Ergo, I wouldn't give up much if anything for Kovalchuk whether or not he was signed. Reminds me too much of Alan Iverson. A great talent but one that will never bring the team with him. Get me a Stevie Y type.

You got it wrong there,bud. Kovalchuk has matured greatly looking to make plays rather than unnecessarily hogging the puck. If we are going to continue to collect potentially solid but merely complementary type talent,without the main ingredient there will be no one to complement. Even Tavares' future is being a complement. Without a magician to get him the puck,or accurately get the puck on net,creating rebounds,he cannot score. I may be wrong,but if Lou plans to sign this 26 year old guy on the cusp of his prime seasons, long term, he will have made the steal of the century. That said,under NO circumstances would I have traded for him unless there is relative certainty of signing him. I am not a rental type guy.

quote:

Originally posted by redraider:

quote:

Originally posted by Lucky:

quote:

Originally posted by redraider:
Ryan Smyth. OUCH!! Even though those first rounders never really panned out I think of that trade and shake my head. The only way to get good, really good is to be bad really bad for a couple or three years. This team should be more concerned on building a solid nucleaus for years to come and unfortunately I'm beginning to think that the Tavares pick just may set us back in regard.

Ergo, I wouldn't give up much if anything for Kovalchuk whether or not he was signed. Reminds me too much of Alan Iverson. A great talent but one that will never bring the team with him. Get me a Stevie Y type.

You got it wrong there,bud. Kovalchuk has matured greatly looking to make plays rather than unnecessarily hogging the puck. If we are going to continue to collect potentially solid but merely complementary type talent,without the main ingredient there will be no one to complement. Even Tavares' future is being a complement. Without a magician to get him the puck,or accurately get the puck on net,creating rebounds,he cannot score. I may be wrong,but if Lou plans to sign this 26 year old guy on the cusp of his prime seasons, long term, he will have made the steal of the century. That said,under NO circumstances would I have traded for him unless there is relative certainty of signing him. I am not a rental type guy.

No pal, I don't think I have it wrong, at least how this guy would be for us. I've read elsewhere, as you say, that Kovalchuk is looking to distribute more than in the past. However, I've also read in the same reports that he is HORRIBLE at it. I can understand that. Even though he's only 26 that's old when you've played that "I me" story for so long. No doubt a contributing factor to this was the cornucopia of coaches whose offensive philosophy was "get the puck to Ilya". Oddly enough I think he'll be a plus on a team like New Jersey, a team with a recent pedigree, a good strong system, and some strong veteran leadership, a team into which he'll no doubt will try assimilate himself. Kind of like Randy Moss and the Pats. He should fare reasonably well.

Lucky, last year you made overtures that we should target a Nash or a Kessel to speed up this process at the expense of picks and young talent. Relax a bit, my friend. Things will come in time. I disagree that about our players being solely complementary. That may be what we have AT THE MOMENT but it surely isn't what I was hoping for when we tanked last year. The key is to get some STRONG, YOUNG, TALENTED, NONcomplementary players through the draft. Last year's draft was to be a key year as a means to that end. We drafted what we thought would be someone MORE than a complimentary figure. Tavares' failure to measure up (more of that on another thread) will put this organization back a year ESPECIALLY when you consider that Snow could have had a better draft overall. He overspent on DeHann and wasted a number two on a goalie while better talent was on the board. Hopefully, we can tank another season this year and garner another top five pick while selling off a vet or three and stockpile picks to be used in an attempt to move up.

The other thing you seem to forget when making these wishes is that Wang won't throw $$$ around after all these guys and I don't blame him at all. Aside from the Lighthous boondoggle there's a little thing called attendance wherein the fans just won't come out irregardless of the players. I've been to a couple of games this year. With all the kids and the good feelings about the team AND the over .500 record for the most part, this franchise still has an embarrassingly thin following willing to fork over their money to watch their heroes. If I'm Wang, I want to see the crowd show up BEFORE I invest any further. Wang threw money at a player or two in the past and after an initial bump in attendance the people just got complacent, lazy, and worst of all disinterested.

quote:

Originally posted by Lucky:

quote:

Originally posted by redraider:

quote:

Originally posted by Lucky:

quote:

Originally posted by redraider:
Ryan Smyth. OUCH!! Even though those first rounders never really panned out I think of that trade and shake my head. The only way to get good, really good is to be bad really bad for a couple or three years. This team should be more concerned on building a solid nucleaus for years to come and unfortunately I'm beginning to think that the Tavares pick just may set us back in regard.

Ergo, I wouldn't give up much if anything for Kovalchuk whether or not he was signed. Reminds me too much of Alan Iverson. A great talent but one that will never bring the team with him. Get me a Stevie Y type.

You got it wrong there,bud. Kovalchuk has matured greatly looking to make plays rather than unnecessarily hogging the puck. If we are going to continue to collect potentially solid but merely complementary type talent,without the main ingredient there will be no one to complement. Even Tavares' future is being a complement. Without a magician to get him the puck,or accurately get the puck on net,creating rebounds,he cannot score. I may be wrong,but if Lou plans to sign this 26 year old guy on the cusp of his prime seasons, long term, he will have made the steal of the century. That said,under NO circumstances would I have traded for him unless there is relative certainty of signing him. I am not a rental type guy.

No pal, I don't think I have it wrong, at least how this guy would be for us. I've read elsewhere, as you say, that Kovalchuk is looking to distribute more than in the past. However, I've also read in the same reports that he is HORRIBLE at it. I can understand that. Even though he's only 26 that's old when you've played that "I me" story for so long. No doubt a contributing factor to this was the cornucopia of coaches whose offensive philosophy was "get the puck to Ilya". Oddly enough I think he'll be a plus on a team like New Jersey, a team with a recent pedigree, a good strong system, and some strong veteran leadership, a team into which he'll no doubt will try assimilate himself. Kind of like Randy Moss and the Pats. He should fare reasonably well.

Lucky, last year you made overtures that we should target a Nash or a Kessel to speed up this process at the expense of picks and young talent. Relax a bit, my friend. Things will come in time. I disagree that about our players being solely complementary. That may be what we have AT THE MOMENT but it surely isn't what I was hoping for when we tanked last year. The key is to get some STRONG, YOUNG, TALENTED, NONcomplementary players through the draft. Last year's draft was to be a key year as a means to that end. We drafted what we thought would be someone MORE than a complimentary figure. Tavares' failure to measure up (more of that on another thread) will put this organization back a year ESPECIALLY when you consider that Snow could have had a better draft overall. He overspent on DeHann and wasted a number two on a goalie while better talent was on the board. Hopefully, we can tank another season this year and garner another top five pick while selling off a vet or three and stockpile picks to be used in an attempt to move up.

The other thing you seem to forget when making these wishes is that Wang won't throw $$$ around after all these guys and I don't blame him at all. Aside from the Lighthous boondoggle there's a little thing called attendance wherein the fans just won't come out irregardless of the players. I've been to a couple of games this year. With all the kids and the good feelings about the team AND the over .500 record for the most part, this franchise still has an embarrassingly thin following willing to fork over their money to watch their heroes. If I'm Wang, I want to see the crowd show up BEFORE I invest any further. Wang threw money at a player or two in the past and after an initial bump in attendance the people just got complacent, lazy, and worst of all disinterested.

You lost me there,Red. In one breath you disagree that our players are solely complementary at the moment,yet in the other, by implying the mistakes Snow made last June,they may not even be that. While I agree Comeau,Tambellini,Bergenheim,etc may not be worth a damn,just what do you expect different next June,should we tank,doing the same with different results? There is NO NHL caliber talent at Bridgeport,nothing special in Juniors and little development in NCAA! Aside from D men Hamonic and Donovan who show some possibilites,the cupboard is totally bare. Aside from Tavares(Who is beginning to scare the hell out of me) playmaking Bailey and Okposo,who may be nothing more than a Shane Doan(hardly Jerome Iginla)there is nothing here. I'm a patient guy,but if you think in your wildest dreams this rebuild is moving along with some mortor and bricks in place,you are in fact dreaming. This constant churning of veterans for draft picks will take years(not merely two or three) of uncertainty before they bear any fruit. Quite frankly there may not be enough time left for this franchise to survive. It needs a spark and I disagree with your assessment of Kovalchuk. He is a world class player who could have done just that. From what I understand attendance had been up and the franchise had shown the greatest % increase form last season of any in the entire NHL through January. Of course that may change now. I firmly believe Wang's moratorium is more about certainty and future revenue streams aside from paid receipts. Until he knows what direction he is going to take this franchise,be it Nassau,Brooklyn,Queens or into a new owners hands,he will remain at the Cap floor. In the end,we have differing opinions of what should be done on the ice,but both agree Wang's strategy is to do nothing but bank on Snows expertise( ),albeit for different reasons.

quote:

Originally posted by redraider:

quote:

Originally posted by Lucky:

quote:

Originally posted by redraider:

quote:

Originally posted by Lucky:

quote:

Originally posted by redraider:
Ryan Smyth. OUCH!! Even though those first rounders never really panned out I think of that trade and shake my head. The only way to get good, really good is to be bad really bad for a couple or three years. This team should be more concerned on building a solid nucleaus for years to come and unfortunately I'm beginning to think that the Tavares pick just may set us back in regard.

Ergo, I wouldn't give up much if anything for Kovalchuk whether or not he was signed. Reminds me too much of Alan Iverson. A great talent but one that will never bring the team with him. Get me a Stevie Y type.

You got it wrong there,bud. Kovalchuk has matured greatly looking to make plays rather than unnecessarily hogging the puck. If we are going to continue to collect potentially solid but merely complementary type talent,without the main ingredient there will be no one to complement. Even Tavares' future is being a complement. Without a magician to get him the puck,or accurately get the puck on net,creating rebounds,he cannot score. I may be wrong,but if Lou plans to sign this 26 year old guy on the cusp of his prime seasons, long term, he will have made the steal of the century. That said,under NO circumstances would I have traded for him unless there is relative certainty of signing him. I am not a rental type guy.

No pal, I don't think I have it wrong, at least how this guy would be for us. I've read elsewhere, as you say, that Kovalchuk is looking to distribute more than in the past. However, I've also read in the same reports that he is HORRIBLE at it. I can understand that. Even though he's only 26 that's old when you've played that "I me" story for so long. No doubt a contributing factor to this was the cornucopia of coaches whose offensive philosophy was "get the puck to Ilya". Oddly enough I think he'll be a plus on a team like New Jersey, a team with a recent pedigree, a good strong system, and some strong veteran leadership, a team into which he'll no doubt will try assimilate himself. Kind of like Randy Moss and the Pats. He should fare reasonably well.

Lucky, last year you made overtures that we should target a Nash or a Kessel to speed up this process at the expense of picks and young talent. Relax a bit, my friend. Things will come in time. I disagree that about our players being solely complementary. That may be what we have AT THE MOMENT but it surely isn't what I was hoping for when we tanked last year. The key is to get some STRONG, YOUNG, TALENTED, NONcomplementary players through the draft. Last year's draft was to be a key year as a means to that end. We drafted what we thought would be someone MORE than a complimentary figure. Tavares' failure to measure up (more of that on another thread) will put this organization back a year ESPECIALLY when you consider that Snow could have had a better draft overall. He overspent on DeHann and wasted a number two on a goalie while better talent was on the board. Hopefully, we can tank another season this year and garner another top five pick while selling off a vet or three and stockpile picks to be used in an attempt to move up.

The other thing you seem to forget when making these wishes is that Wang won't throw $$$ around after all these guys and I don't blame him at all. Aside from the Lighthous boondoggle there's a little thing called attendance wherein the fans just won't come out irregardless of the players. I've been to a couple of games this year. With all the kids and the good feelings about the team AND the over .500 record for the most part, this franchise still has an embarrassingly thin following willing to fork over their money to watch their heroes. If I'm Wang, I want to see the crowd show up BEFORE I invest any further. Wang threw money at a player or two in the past and after an initial bump in attendance the people just got complacent, lazy, and worst of all disinterested.

You lost me there,Red. In one breath you disagree that our players are solely complementary at the moment,yet in the other, by implying the mistakes Snow made last June,they may not even be that. While I agree Comeau,Tambellini,Bergenheim,etc may not be worth a damn,just what do you expect different next June,should we tank,doing the same with different results? There is NO NHL caliber talent at Bridgeport,nothing special in Juniors and little development in NCAA! Aside from D men Hamonic and Donovan who show some possibilites,the cupboard is totally bare. Aside from Tavares(Who is beginning to scare the hell out of me) playmaking Bailey and Okposo,who may be nothing more than a Shane Doan(hardly Jerome Iginla)there is nothing here. I'm a patient guy,but if you think in your wildest dreams this rebuild is moving along with some mortor and bricks in place,you are in fact dreaming. This constant churning of veterans for draft picks will take years(not merely two or three) of uncertainty before they bear any fruit. Quite frankly there may not be enough time left for this franchise to survive. It needs a spark and I disagree with your assessment of Kovalchuk. He is a world class player who could have done just that. From what I understand attendance had been up and the franchise had shown the greatest % increase form last season of any in the entire NHL through January. Of course that may change now. I firmly believe Wang's moratorium is more about certainty and future revenue streams aside from paid receipts. Until he knows what direction he is going to take this franchise,be it Nassau,Brooklyn,Queens or into a new owners hands,he will remain at the Cap floor. In the end,we have differing opinions of what should be done on the ice,but both agree Wang's strategy is to do nothing but bank on Snows expertise( ),albeit for different reasons.

I can see your confusion on my statement regarding "complimentary" players. I've been shooting from the hip on my posts lately. A lot of pent up frustration between my Isles and Mets and when you consider the fact that our Jets very well may have shot themselves in the feet by doing well and paying for it in the upcoming uncapped year...... well you get the idea, I'm quite discontented with the home teams.

Anyways, you would be correct regarding the likes of Bailey, Okposo, Nielsen and the like. They ARE more complimentary than not at the moment. Maybe they can evolve into something more but I doubt it. HOWEVER Tavares is different. He IS supposed to be a game changer for us, not on the "generational level" of a Ovechkin or Crosby but a game changer just the same. He's supposed to be one of several KEY, YOUNG, and CHEAP, building blocks.

Now this past draft was to be VERY important to us. IF Snow blew this one it sets us back a year but irregardless it is imperative that we come up with the goods when given the tremendous opprotunity of drafting in the top five of the draft. Last night Butch Goring was given a question regarding the Isles making the playoffs this season. His answer: "While it would be great for a young team to experience playoff hockey for the first time in the Islander's case they may be better off if they got (another lottery pick). If you notice teams like Washington, Chicago and the Penquins were real bad for a few seasons and now its starting to pay off for them". BINGO BUTCH!!!

How does this play in the case of Kovalchuk? Well, if we pick him up we would obviously make the playoffs and undermine the work and/or foundation needed to make a team with loftier goals and long term durability. We would become that type of team that would show up in the playoffs, go a round or two AND since we never really got a large group of GOOD supporting players will run the hamster wheel, knocking on the Cup door but never having the resources (high picks) or money (since Kovalchuk will eat that up) to make a run at the real prize THE CUP. Also, say what you want about Kovalchuk but as good as he is I don't think he's the type to come over and start with a new bunch of neophytes. He won't have the patience ESPECIALLY after his long stint in Atlanta with a similar situation. Jersey is perfect for him and I think he'll thrive. Good luck to the Devils. Good luck to him.

Lucky, you know how this team reached those dizzying heights in the past. They themselves went out and drafted their game changers. When they got to a point when they needed something to put them over the top they then went out and got a good complimentary player (the aforementioned Goring) I like to see us do that again. It will take a LOT of luck drafting and to be sure the parity in this league will be a roadblock in getting all those high picks but remember in looking back it WAS doable.

Also remember the $$$ factor, Wang was also interviewed last night. While he did say that Snow has a reign over spending money should the Isles decide to be buyers at the deadline he also interjected that the team is looking long term and moves won't be made just to make a move.

Now I don't know where you got the attendance figures that show attendance being up although one would understand if it was since the team is developing BUT when I went with my wife a couple of weeks ago against Florida, midweek the place looked like a Jaws (professional roller hockey at the Colleseum) game. What gave me the impression that attendance numbers for even that game may be inflated is that we (the wife and myself) got free tickets for buying 50 dollars worth of hockey related gifts at Modells during Christmas. Ironically, I spoke to someone at work who ALSO went to the game and he said his tickets were also free courtesy of buying some Islander DVD. You gotta wonder just how many of these fannies in the seats resulted in an overinflated attendance count.

Now the bottom line for Wang is the bottom line. I don't see him throwing money into this team as he may have in the past. As I said, the Lighthouse is one thing but Wang HAS tried to buy the fans back in the past, (the illfated Yashin and Peca signings). The result was limited the first time. He's a fan but a businessman first. If he's smart he'll go the draft route, see what shakes out AND THEN decide whether or not to invest in highprice help. I wouldn't hold my breath on the latter. The poor guy has been burned by us fans and the Town of Hempstead in the past. Look forward to more of a Billy Beane approach for awhile.